Atlantis & South America/Tiahuanaco

WordPress wouldn’t let us edit the old page so have to post new, sadly it means John’s comment has been lost.

Mythos Atlantis – Historia Pangaea, by Sean Bambrough.

Please note that there is now a newer better evidenced & written version at:
http://lifetradition.webs.com/atlantis.htm
As well as previous intermediate rewritings at
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,33901.0.html
(and pictures at http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,33831.15.html and a few older large island & large plain & capital city search ones at http://picasaweb.google.com/seanbam2/Antipodean .)
I will just leave here (below) the main sections from the old version that was here that aren’t in the new version there “yet”.

0. This is a rough paper/notes/lists of evidences for that Atlantis matches South America / Peru/Bolivia / Altiplano/Titicaca / Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku.
Our thesis is that Atlantis the continent/”island” is South America, the city is Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku, the “sinking” was either continental shift or pole shift (which pushed-up the Andes), the date was 900 years before Amasis II (i.e. ca 1400s bc).
We can’t claim anymuch credit because apparently a few others have suggested Tiahuanaco as Atlantis (or Aztlan) before: (Posnansky,) David Fasold, Jim Allen, James Bailey).
(Plus I probably/possibly would not have been able narrow down the city site from either/both Americas to Titicaca if I had not been influenced by Allen’s Bolivia thesis.)

Contents (these are mostly all details in Plato’s ‘Atlantis Account’):
0. Forenote / Introduction
1. Atlantis was Real not myth
2. Pillars of Hercules at Gibraltar not Dardanelles/Sicily/etc
3. Atlantis West not east
4. Atlantis South not north?
5. Atlantis in Ocean not sea
6. Atlantis in Atlantic not Antarctic/Indian/Pacific
{7. Atlantis a modern Continent not ocean
8. Atlantis was “Larger than” not “between” Asia & Libya;
9. Atlantis a Continent not (just an) island
10. Atlantis continent was South America not Old World/etc}
11. Atlantis city was at Tiahuanaco not elsewhere
{12. Atlantis not too close nor too far
13. Atlantis sinking was Shift not sunk/submerged/etc
14. Shift(s) not drift(ing)
i. quakes & floods}
ii. mid-point island
iii. muddy sea
iv. boats
v. all kinds of animals
vi. elephants
vii. good climate
viii. 2 crops a year/fertile
ix. woodland
x. the plain
xi. (plain) surrounded by mountains
xii. highest/precipitous
xiii. cliffs/precipitous
xiv. red, white & black
xv. dunes
xvi. near sea (but stades inland)
xvii. canal/s/river/s
xviii. small low hill
xix. royal island capital city Atlantis
xx. temple/palace/fort
xxi. wall/s
xxii. circular/concentric shape design
xxiii. size of capital island/city
xxiv. horse racing track/hippodrome/horses/chariots
xxv oreichalc covered temple
xxvi. oreichalc metal/alloy
xxvii. bull sacrifice
xxviii. hot/cold springs
xxix. laws engraved on pillar
[xxx statue ]
xxxi. 10/5×2 kings
xxxii. Atlas, Poseidon, Clito
xxxiii. twins/2×5
xxxiv. blue robes
[xxxv. names of some of the 2×5/10 twins/kings]
xxxviii. 5th/6th year/s
xxxix. “9000 years” date
xl. Atlantean script (of/in Atlantis account)
Name Atlantis
Precolumbian Old World – New World contacts
[Colchis connections?]
[Scheria/Phaeacia]
[Conclusion]
Non-/Platonic Accounts of Atlantis
My sources/references/acknowledgments.
[Pictures (links).]

11 / xix / xxii . (concentric ringed) city of Atlantis [Clito] match (& Poseidon bored rings match?) :
Atlantis continent can only be Americas (or Armorica plate/Avallonia/Apallachia/Euramerica). We scoured/searched Americas esp incl Bermuda, off Florida (incl Bimini), Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, around South America, Peru. There is only one place in all Americas that the mountains, plain & city can be and that has many evidences/matches & civilisation remains (and only one place in all South America / Peru/Bolivia / Altiplano / Titicaca).
(The capital city of Atlantis might be connected with the 12 scenarios of Duat/Amenti/(Aaru) and sun’s journey along the River of Urani/Duat?)
(Kirchir’s map which seems to be of South America seems to suggest 1 of 2 locations: Venezuela or Peru.)
The ‘route/way of Viracocha’, and (the middle 1 of) the ‘3 windows’ both confirm the city was somewhere between Island of the Sun/Tiahuanaco/Oruro/Poopo and Quito/Chavin/Huanuco/MacchuPicchu/Cuzco.
Inscriptions from Peru/Bolivia have concentric circles, like one from Sillustani. Radiating cross, petroglyph, northwest of Titicaca (Sitchin fig 134)?
The candelabra at Paracas indicates Atlantis city is in Peru area.
[Puno is called the folkloric capital of Peru and South America?]
Hayu Marca/Marcu “city of the gods” (Amaru/Aramu Muru/Muro)?
Jim Allen’s site Cerro Santo Vilca/Pampa Aullagas has 3 sandy channels separated by rings of land, but this site doesn’t fit/match (though it is evidence that concentric city was in the region). Uru/Chipaya/Coipasa village concentric organisation.
The concentric city is clearly seen depicted on the picture from the Coricancha (center piece images/symbols above altar, sacred wall/s Coricancha, Cuzco), both on the left (“rainbow” & globe/circle/”earthsymbol/pachamama”) and on the right (in lake Titicaca); and the Calango stone also shows the concentric city at Titicaca.
Huinaymarka means “eternal city”. (There are also stories of a lost underwater city ‘Wanaku’ in lake Titicaca.)
Atlantis city matches Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku.
Tiahuanaco is called “the Baalbek of the New World” (and “American Stonehenge”) and is Posnansky’s cradle/capital of Americas, and was a “cosmological center” (and called “the city of ruins”). Tiahuanaco is between 2 of the greatest mountain peaks of Andes (Illampu/Sorata & Illimani). “No where else in the world, perhaps, can a panorama so diversified be and grand be obtained from a single point of view.” The Akapana (matching the ‘small hill’ / ‘(dwelling of poseidon &) clito’) is strong evidence.
Posnansky’s diagram/map of Tiahuanaco shows some concentric circles features.
Drawings of the “geometric …. circles and ovals” components of the ‘gate of the sun’ resemble the concentric design of Atlantis city.
“4 walls surrounded by a moat which was to create the image of a scared island / holiest of shrines” (Tiahuanaco article). Palacio enclosed by double ring of earthworks (Tiahuanaco/Calasasaya)?
Tiahuanaco is the major place in Viracocha founding myths/legends.
Tiahuanaco is located within centre of geoglyphs around southern Titicaca & northern Altiplano.
Also, Tiwanaku/Wanaku may connect with Anaku of Mesopotamian. Plus, Tiahuanaco & Titicaca are similar to Eridu & Persian Gulf (except reversed north/south).
Sources note that in some cases blocks were removed from some sites to be reused, (and myth says the stones …,) but sources also say that Tiahuanaco can’t have been moved from elsewhere.
Eldorado/Manoa? Akakor?
[The head/face of a figure in Crespi collection possibly symbolically depicts the circular/ringed city of Atlantis?]
Also perhaps compare that Tiahuanaco is called taypicala “rock/stone in centre”?
Manco struck the stone with the gold staff/wand may be similar to Poseidon bored rings?
[The hats of Peruvians might connect with the small hill and concentric city?]
(Note: The main parts of Tiahuanco/Tiwanaku are Akapana, Kalasasya, kantatayita, Pumapunku, [kheri kala, putuni,] Lukurmata.)
Refs: Atlantis account, Chadderton, Spanuth, Crespi collection, wikipedia, Alford, Sitchin, Posnansky, Ivar Lissner (living past), coricancha picture (salcamayhua/sitchin fig86), ‘indiana jones’, Jim Allen, Alan Kolata, Flem-Ath, Ephraim George Squier, Kolosimo, Zangger, Gerald Massey.

13 / 14 / i. “Sunk”/”submerged” in great quake(s) & flood(s) match (and vanished without a trace match):
Atlantis sinking can not just be (a &/or) the Great Flood: Only Atlantis (and Athens) was lost not whole world. Atlantis was already separate land mass while in bible continents did not split until after or “during” Flood? Flood did not definitely also have quakes (though csf/icr/aig and Fasold do give evidence that was tectonic activity implied by “break-up fountains of deep” etc?) No rain in Atlantis account (though some translations do have “in a single day/night of rain”), Account says “1 day & night” not 40/310 days.
Can not be (just) volcanic eruption: Atlantis did not blow up in a volcanic explosion/eruption like Thera/Santorini: The account doesn’t definitely mention any volcanic eruption, only “floods/quakes” [though our tectonic activity one would include volcanic as well as quakes]. It (remains, location area) would still be there (like Thera).
Not (just) tidal-wave / “tsunami”: continent would still be there.
Not (submergence by/or) rising sealevels: (Account says sunk not submerged?) Only Atlantis (and Athens) was lost not (coasts of) whole world. If sea levels were lower Gibraltar straits would be land. (Whole island vanished not just coasts. The land would still be not absolutely lost but still possible to find down below underwater and/or near by) would not have made distance/duration that much longer for ancients not to be able to find Atlantis any longer. Compare sink 1 km submerged true continental shelf (one/both sides of Atlantic) to shift approximately 2000 km. (Must have both quake(s) and flood(s).)
Not literally sunk/subsided: Atlantis was a large island, there are no sunken/submerged continents found in Atlantic (and/or Indian and/or Pacfic.) (The land would still be not absolutely lost but still possible to find down below underwater and/or near by (then/now) even if it was smaller.) Mid-Atlantic is emerging up/out not down/in. Compare sink ~ 11 km (in Atlantic, or 1 km true continental shelf) to shift approximately 2000 km.
Not (just) Crust Displacement (or Pole shift/wandering): though it is perhaps conceivable that they could have lost their bearings ((ocean slosh, &) compass-points/quarters/directions/star-map changes &/or currents changes) I think its not overly likely and surely they would still be able to know/find where Atlantis was? However, this is our second/alternative choice if shift wrong, &/or crust displacement may have been partly involved in our shift scenario?
Not just Carthaginian propaganda: all the evidence of the Atlantis Account and our paper seems to support that Atlantis did “sink”/[shift].
Not ice shift (pole shift): no ice definitely mentioned in the account. Would still be found in same place.
Not just meteor event: the Account doesn’t necessarily/definitely mention meteor, though the Phaethon bit may imply meteor partly involved in catastrophe?
Atlantis disaster was not just the same as the many other historical natural disasters of history.
Atlantis “sinking” can only be (Atlantis/South America really moved in a) continental shift.
– Atlantis “sank/submerged” / “was swallowed up”. (Other account/s say/s it vanished/disappeared without a trace, and ships went out to look for it and not find it).
It would have genuinely seemed to the Old World people that Atlantis/America had sunk and vanished.
– Atlantis sunk during/after “(terrible) quake(s) & flood(s)”.
– Kirchir’s map looks like South or North America closer than North or South America.
– Old World traditions of Atlantis etc in west, and New World traditions of Tulan/Mu/etc in east could be either relatively/respectively referring to each other (being once closer together), or commonly to (lost) land in between (‘Armorica plate/Avalonia/Euramerica’, or South America centred further east than North America).
Our scenario is that the Atlantic was once say half the current distance and then there was a sudden shift and it widened to the current distance.
It is not “geologically impossible/indefensible”, and/or there is not “no evidence that it happened”, there is plenty of evidence that the plates have shifted that much.
– Birds, lemmings, eels and butterflies still go out into Atlantic/sea to about half way (where the opposite land once was), similar to the ships going out to look for Atlantis in vain.
– The Andes/Cordilleras (&/or Coast/Rocky/Cascade) mountains/ranges would have been pushed up high(er) in such a shift. (So the fact that Tiahuanaco is now way above sealevel is not evidence against but for.) There is scientific evidence that the Andes must have been/were once lower and were suddenly raised (in modern humans/civilisations lifetime).
Some sources say that there is evidence of great force [catastrophe] at Peru sites. “blocks tossed/scattered”? “broken megaliths”? Cracked ‘gate of the sun’ ~ quake(s)? Cerro santo vilca/Pampa Aullagas earthquake damage on west, sandy? Titicaca tilted? Evidence of 2 catastrophes at Tiwanaku: “an avalanche/flood of water, and a sudden upheaval of unknown nature”. It is a known fact in archaeology that Tiahaunaco (and Poopo area) was also flooded by lake Titicaca or sea.
Peruvian memory/”myth” recalls the catastrophe Flood/’unu pachacuti’ destroy giants/Tiahuanaco &/before/of the long night/period of darkness/’chamak-pacha’ of ca 1400 bc. (‘Legend of the Desaguadero’.)
Tiahuanaco monolithic/etc can’t have been built (etc) in such high altitude / rarified atmosphere (altitude sickness / hard to breathe). There are raised beaches (with human culture remains)* in the Peru (Ancon & Valparaiso). [* Nets, pottery, stone implements, cloth in strata/cross-bedding; And staircase.] Tiahuanaco was once a port linked with Titicaca. (“Sea ports in the Andes”.) The fauna of Peru is similar to Pacific. Calcified remains marine plants Andes.
– Charles Hapgood’s thesis included continental shifts. Posnansky had many evidences of “geomorphology”. Velikovsky’s ‘Earth in Upheaval’ also has many evidences of catastrophism. (I mean the info/data/evidences/facts in their works/books/papers not necessarily their “theories”.)
– Compare sink ~ 11 km, or 1 km submerged true continental shelf, to shift approximately 2000 km.
– Continental shift (& sea slosh) could have caused ‘muddy sea’ like the Account says? (Seafloor sediments? Sargasso? Banks/bars?)
– The Flood/Deluge myths of Americas and many nations of world may be either or both-combined of Noachian Flood &/or Atlantis flood.
– Shift would cause the oceans/seas & lakes to slosh/swell over the land on the leading side, and tidal waves/”tsunamis”. Perhaps compare sea salt petrified mastodon bones/remains near Bogota, whale bones in Michgan, “flood(s)” (& “muddy sea”) of Plato’s account. The bible says [God pours the sea onto the land].
– mass extinction sites from Alaska to Mexico and Bogota to Fuego. [Cross-reference Andes pushed-up &/or sea slosh.]
– the recently discovered “hole in the Atlantic” a few years ago?
– tachylyte?
– super-volcanoes in Americas evidence of catastrophism.
– Sudden shift could have triggered volcanic eruptions cp Thera?
– iridium from below crust? [Though I have been told it comes from one meteorite(s) event?]
– accompanying quakes: (Stonehenge damaged from south-west? Easter island statues toppled. Wrenching in Great Pyramid. Medium pyramid disaster?) Atlantis same faultline (or touching plates) as Athens.
– evidence of burning/melting at sites either side of Atlantic like Avebury, Stede Citades? [Though this burning/fire might rather have come from above (like meteors). Though it is maybe possible that the meteorites were connected with the Atlantis catastrophe (“Phaethon in Eridanus”)?]
– ash at Siberian mammoth extinction site(s)?
– shift would have warmed the oceans (seafloor sediments?) which would in turn lead to ice age/shift (Compare Hopi legend, Siberia mammoths, “neo-glaciation”).
– Jantsang says their (Indian? Mongol?) traditions recall “India crashing into Turan”.
– Even today the Tibetan/Himalayan region is reported to be dropping height/altitude fast. [Though others tell me Himalayas still being pushed up?]
– Scientists refused to believe even when they were seeing with their own eyes Venus “turning inside out” a few years ago?
– uniformitarinism is wrong, catastrophism is right (or truth is a synthesis of both). (Sure the continents have mostly been uniformitarianly drifting for alot of history, but there is evidence/s that there was/were also interrupting shift/s sometime/s.)
– “climatic records show evidence of obstruction of warm sea currents”??
– Malta catastrophe?
[Carolina Bays event?]
– “1000 krakatoas”
Refs: Charles Berlitz, HS Bellamy, D Fasold, Jim Allen, Sitchin, Daniel Cologne (celtic myth of origins) [in ‘the scorpion’], Atlantis account, Daniken, Julius Kirchir (Atlantis map), Charles Hapgood, Lissner, Posnansky, Velikovsky, Jantsang, thunderbolts.info, ‘Walter Alter’.

ix. woodland:
~ “deforestation of titicaca basin”? vilcabamba forest site? manu jungle? pomac forest? forest Pongo de Mainique? Amazon rain forest?

xv. dunes:
~ Sandy (& dunes) [& hills] Cerro santo vilca/Pampa Aullagas (Poopo)? Sanddunes salar de Coipasa? Zona de dunas?
(Raised beaches Ancon?)
[Compare dunes Donana near Tartessos in Spain?]

xvii(a). [(great) river? &/or] canal &/or ditch match:
The ditch around the great plain may match Desaguadero (which means “…”). The ditch is also seen on the Corcancha picture around the criss-crossed rectangle.
For the (9.2km) Canal: Tiahuanaco is about 10km from Titicaca. The canal may be Rio Tiwanaku or the canal there in maps of the city. Canal of pumapunku? The Canal is shown on Coricancha picture.
Some accounts say there was a (great) river [Tritonis? Eridanus?]. This might match Amazon is a great river (sakad-bahar / river-sea / rio-mar, “Amazonian sea”)?

xxi. wall/s.
refs: bibliotecapleyades.

xxiv. (winged) horses (&/or chariots), & racing track/hippodrome match:
“skeleton of ancient horse found in peru”.
vase made in shape of horse (fertility ceremonies)?
horse sacrificed, its entrails placed in vase?
Uros boats called Totora horses? horse shoe shape temple Pukara?
Wheeled toys? Winged attendants on gate of sun?
hippocampus/little seahorse? Horses & camelids Pikimachay?
[Prehistoric/ancient North &/or South America/s had horses? Note that the evolutionary dating is wrong, not right, so it is not disproof as they claim. (It would also/alterantively fit with “9000” years anyway.)]
(Maybe also compare the cati “this way” statue in Azores?)
Refs: Jim Allen, Larousse world mythology.

xxvii. Bulls (sacrifice) (& altar) match:
Atlantis account says Atlantis had bulls (sacrifice). People say Peru doesn’t have bulls so doesn’t match. However there is evidence that Peru has bulls &/or “bulls” matches & sacrificed in same way as Atlantis account says (hunted bulls with staves/clubs & nooses, struck bull on head, slain over inscription, burnt limbs, mingled cup clot/s blood, burnt rest of bull in fire, golden cups/spoons, pour libation on fire, drinking [blood?]) :
= little ceramic stone bulls on rooftops everywhere in Lake Titicaca? ‘Pottery cow’ / cow shaped vase / cow sacrificed & entrails put in vase (fertilit ceremonies, Larousse mythology pg 491)? Seated “deer” figure carrying a club (Larousse world mythology, looks bull/cow like though the antlers aren’t cow but deer). Mochica stirup vessels [cow head]? bull god at Chavin (Sitchin)? communities worship bull at pucara/near puno on titicaca? bull(s) of pucara? standing on a bull in a stone carving sw of Titicaca? Raimondi monolith deity’s face of a bull? El Lanzon anthropomorphised bull face? Rimac horned crown [~ Rimmon/Ramman]?
“captives throat cut, blood caught in goblet, offered goblet to ruler who drank the blood” (sipan)? [priest cutting throat has horn/ear-like projections head?] sacrifical victims dismembered and strings tied around limbs so they could be hung up as trophies Sipan? {“on a certain day a priest would go to a distant mtn upon which there stood a large idol of a god, and would sacrifice there a llama” (chroniclers, Sitchin)? llama sacrifice (intiRaimi [festival] drank from gold goblets)? “Urus ancestors sacrificed by invaders”? golden bowls/goblets chimu? kero drinking cup smashed after ceremonies? textiles depict herders, sacrificial victims? human sacrifices Akapana, people disemboweled & torn apart? (ritual human beheading?)
(There was also buffalo in North America but that is North not South America.)
Refs: Sitchin (lost realms), tourist girls website photos & captions, Larouss world mythology, Readers Digest (vanished civilisations), Jim Allen.

xxviii. hot/cold spring/s , baths , and cisterns matches :
Baths: bath of the princess Ollantaytambo?* baths of boza? baths/water fountains Pisac? Tambomachay aqueducts/bath/spa?

xxxii. Poseidon & Clito (&/or Evenor & Leucippe (parents of Clito)) match:
the man and woman on the picture from the coricancha match Poseidon & Clito. (“10 planets & 2 (sun & moon) parents” (Sitchin)? gates of sun & moon? islands of sun & moon?) Posnansky concluded there had been 2 races at Tiahuanaco: a Mongoloid one and a Middle Eastern Caucasoid one
[Slab and passage grave in UK may also be connected and confirm historicity and direction?]
Table:
{man & woman (on picture from coricancha)
mid east caucasoid & mongoloid (posnansky)
[sun & moon?]
giants landed on the coast &raped native women?}
{phallic slab & vulvic passage grave (bryn-celli-ddu)
cerne abbas giant & frypan (england)}
aesir & vanir (larousse)
romans & sabines (larousse) [“raped”~seduced]
stone phalli & venus figures?
{atlantioi & amazons?
phoenicans/greeks & native women
[eusebius & machimos?]
poseidon & clito (plato) [sea/ocean=heaven/sky/space]}
the snake/ serpents /serpent populace & mother goddess (hermitage/leningrad)
{sons of god & daughters of men (bible)
iron & clay (bible)}
The moon (gate of moon, island of moon, sun & moon & 10 planets) [and sun] may rather connect with Leucippe “white horse” (cp Loki/Losna/Leukothea/Luna) [and Evenor]?
Refs: coricancha picture, Sitchin, Atlantis account.

xxxii. Clito match:
woman in coricancha picture. Akapana? virgen de Letanias, viacha? Quinoa/Keenwah “mother of all grain” (Eve/Hawah “mother of all living”)? Orejona? Atlatona? Crespi collection female figure? [santuario de la virgen?] mother of god/madre de dios? white stone woman? moon (of moon & sun & 10 planets)? pacha mama/mother earth? mamaquilla? mamaocllo? Kalauta? plataformia Liticia? Quillasuyu? virgins of the sun?
Refs: Spanuth.

xxxii / [xxxv]. Poseidon / Atlas:
Viracocha? Pirua? Rimac? Manco Capac? Balam? Naymlap?
[Atlas may possibly be Alalus/Adam/Atl? Meskiaggasher? Olokun?]

xxxviii. Fifth & sixth years (even/odd) match:
~ 5 & 6 bottom figures on gateway Tiahuanaco (calendar) [sitchin/allen]? 11 on gateway?

xxxix. Date match:
The Atlantis Account says Atlantis was 9000 or 8000 years. Many people point out that this can’t be right but wrongly conclude that it means Atlantis is myth rather than that the date isn’t literally 9000 years. The reality is that Atlantis was really 900 not 9000 years before Amasis. Mavor’s 900 years and Spanuth’s 9000 months both reconcile with a 10 month calendar year (compare 10 kings?). (So it was divided by 10 not 12/13, and was 900/800 years before Amasis, not “750 yrs = 9000 months” / “869 yrs = 9000 months” though they are close enough to 800 & 900, and confirm.) (Eudoxus & others confirm that they were months not years / confirm that Egyptians often called months years.) Plato’s 900(0) years matches Herodotus’ 900 years for Moeris and Hercules. (Sais 800(0) years matches Salitis/Saites (Hyksos) just after Moeris 900, and just before Anysis 700 years (maybe Iannas (combined with Unas) or Nehesy).) We see a similar thing with the “Hyperboreans lived to age of a 1000 years old” which is really 100 years (biblical 120 yrs, Egyptian 110 years). (It also fits with Tartessos 700(0) years.) This gives a date of ca 1400s bc for Atlantis and Moeris/Hercules, which matches Exodus or Joshua, and matches the long night of between 1650 (Hoeh) to 1400/1394 (Sitchin) bc of Peruvian’s memory [and a historians/archaeologists “1580/1500 bc” date/s of Tiahuanaco]. (It may match with Philistines from Caphtor same time as Jews from Egypt?)
Atlantis war/sinking is variously dated between [1574?]/1556/1529/1506 to 1397/1347/1320 in sources.
Atlantis was between Cecrops (1556-1506) – Erechtheus (1397-1347). According to a couple of other rare traditional sources Atlantis was “when Aod governed Israel 1320 bc”, or “1 gen before Argonauts”, &/or “Atlantis 2 gens before Trojan war”.
Other evidence includes: According to the account Atlantis can’t be too far in time from Athens & Egyptian/Sais, and/or from bronze/brass/brazen age. It is thought that the Greek culture of the Account matches Minoan-Mycenaean. Atlantis account mentions the 3rd deluge [~ 3rd age?]
Atlas = Shu = air = Amon = Zeus. Shu is Middle Kindgom (as in the 3 Hermes (Set Shu/Num Thoth), and el-Arish (Geb & Shu), and pairs of 10 god kings (Ptah & Ra, Shu & Geb, etc)). Amon is Middle Kingdom.
The 900(0) years Atlantis may also match Ptah 9000 which is 900 (like Adam/Noah)?
Interestingly the “9000/8000 years” date is also similar to “12000th yr” of Tiahuanaco, “glacial flooding 13000 yrs ago”, and the 8498/8238 yrs bc date of Mayan (& Otto Muck). (Also see the 15000 bc or 10050/10000 bc or 9300 bc dates below.) [Compare Caribean above sea 12000 ya?]
[Since I believe from evidence that Biblical chronology is right, Atlantis couldn’t have dated literally 9000 years before 26th dynasty. Moreover Atlantis was a separate land mass in the Account so must date after Peleg. Plus Atlantis sinking does not match the Great Flood.]
Atlantis seems to range-match between 12th – 19th dynasty, eg on one hand it matches end of 12th dyn but on other hand matches 19th/20th/21st (Sea Peoples, south American fan palm, cocaine/tobacco), and working out the picture between the 12th & 19th/20th dyn is a challenge.
Table of corresponded timelines between 12th – 19th dyns (5 columns, 10 rows/line) :
rare source/s: 1 atlantis, (one gen,) 2 argonauts, (one gen,) 3 trojan war.
greek/aspin: 0 ogyges, 1 atlantis/deucalion, 2 minoan/theseus, 3 trojan war/menestheus/[mycenae], 4 return heralcids/dorians, 5 persians.
plato: 1 atlantis 900, 1/2 sais 800, 5 amasis, persians.
herodotus: 1 moeris 900, 2 anysis 700, , 5 persians.
herodotus: 1 hercules 900, 2 dionysos/[osiris] 800, 5 amasis, persians.
herodotus: 1 [atlantis?]/redsea -> 2 argos/phoenicians -> colchis -> 3 trojan -> 5 persians
egyptology: 1 12th dyn/moeris, 2 hyksos/saites, 3 18th dyn, 4 19th/20th dyn (seapeoples/south american fan palm), 19th/21st dyn (cocaine/tobaco), 5 persians.
rohl: 1 moses/12-13th -> 2 inachus/hyksos -> 3 trojan -> 4 seapeoples -> 5 persians
spanish: 1 antaeus, 2 apher, 3 trojan war/mycenae, 4 pelasgians/seapowers, 5 persians.
bible: 1 exodus/joshua -> 2 judges -> 3-4 samson/philistines/kreti/pleti/zerah -> 5 persians.
jerome: 1 cecrops/moses -> 3 trojan/samson -> 5 persia.
ripley: 1a mediterraneans vs/-> 1b-6a alpines -> 4-6b nordics.
Tiahuanaco does not just date from ad 400-1000 (tiwanaku IV & V). (Note the orthodox earliest date is as early as 1500 bc.) Orthodox & evolutionists have their own inclinations/interests. There “have been no scientific appraisals of the age” of site, and “scientists are unable to explain the sudden emergence of the site”. Source says “it had no infancy and passed through no period of growth”.
Some orthodox people even claim that the Collas or Aymara or Uros are connected with it, and i think i have seen evidence that they date from ancient bc times.
Tiwanaku was previously held to date to beginning of christian era.
Based on artefacts of southern Peru (in comparison with Tiahuanaco) archaeologists like Wendell C Bennett push the date of Tiahuanaco to almost the beginning of the 1st millenium bc.
Many sources show that there were 2 ages/dates of the site, one very ancient, and the other that late one. “Tiahuanaco 4 periods: an early period, a 2nd period, a classical period, a final period of decline.”
Conclusion of Posnansky was that Tiwanaku was millenia old; that there had been 3 phases in its history, and its first phase was built when the level of the lake was higher and before the area was engulfed by a flood.
Tiwanaku dates to 1580 bc &/or 2134 bc using radiocarbon & obsidian hydration dating (considered the “old phase” of Tiwanaku).
Archaeoastronomical alignments of Kalasasya suggest date of either “15000 bc or 9300 bc” or “10050/10000 bc or 4050/4000 bc” (Muller).
Some of the stones “looked very ancient” and “are very worn and wasted” and/or weathered. “I would say that I consider this the oldest antiquity in all of Peru”, “the most ancient place of any I have yet described” (Cieza de Leon). Alford’s impression is that the pillars of Kalasasya “looked older than those of Stonehenge”.
Tiwanaku monumental/monolithic can’t have been built at such high altitude and must date from before Andes were raised. Peruvian mythology also says Tiahuanaco dates from before Flood [or before long night of c1400bc], “long before” the Incas, after [Noachian] Flood &/or before [Atlantis] flood.
Peru is shown in orthodox sources as one of the oldest places for agriculture and civilisation.
(Maria Schulten de D’Ebneth suggested the route of Viracocha conforms to obliquity that dates it to 3172 bc. “The calendar of the Incas indicated a beginning in age of Taurus not Aries”.
Muller’s research suggested that Cuzco &/or Macchu Picchu date between 4000 bc & 2000 bc / 4000 ya/yo.)
(Kotosh/Chavin (& Olmec) orthodox dates seem to date to about time of just after Atlantis sinking?)
Refs: Plato (Atlantis account), Herodotus (Histories), Mavor (voyage to atlantis), Spanuth (atlantis of the north), Graham Aspin (website), atlantisrising forum posters, historum forum posters, Kolosimo, Jim Allen, Eudoxus, Pedro de Cieza de Leon, Reader’s Digest (vanished civilisations), wikipedia, Posnansky, Lissner,
Inca/Peruvian myth, Carlos Ponce Sangines, German Astronomical Commission, Dr Rolf Muller, Wendell C Bennett, Juan de Betanzos, Manuel Gonzales de la Rosa, Sitchin, Alan Alford, Max Uhle.

Atlanteans (&/or Phaeacians) akin to the divine (Spanuth):
~ son/s of the sun? Andes longevity? Inca kinglist kings longevity (Hoeh)? “Baalbek of New World”? Hayu Marca/marcu “city of the gods” (&/or Aramu Muru “star gate” portal/door)? Orejones “big ears”? cranial deformation [like “Aliens”?] Race of giants called Huaris? “skulls [3?]x modern capacity”?
[“A tribe in Guinea which is located on the Atlantic coast of Africa performs a ceremony where they reenact an ancient tradition that white men came down from the sky (flight) and from an island that no longer exists….”]

fruits:
~ oranges (Hislop)? bananas?
Refs: Hislop.

[feathered/plumed/rayed headress match?
Various sources show that the Sea Peoples may match the Atlanteans. Some seapeoples have feathered headresses which some have pointed out are similar to American Indian & Toltec feathered headdresses. Some South American tribes have feathered headresses including Suya (Xingu), Caraja (Bananal), Jivaro (Ecuador/Peru), Bororo (Brazil), though some are not round-crown/ring/cylinder-like but flat-semicircle-fan-like. Blue & yellow feathered headress Chimu.
Refs: Spanuth, Medinet Habu, Readers Digest (vanished civs), Huxley.]

[possible origins of name Peru/biru/piuru/pirua/peruda have included:
pharaoh miru/milu peruwa solarperusta ophir/parvaim peiru-un]

Phaethon (in Eridanus) ~ Venus (Velikovsky)? Carolina Bays event / [“Florida”]? burning/melting at Stede Citades?

opposite continent:
the (parts of the) whole opposite continent beyond Atlantis is the account may match either North America, Asia, Australia, &/or Antarctica.
Refs: Jim Allen, Flem-Ath, Bedrich Hrozny, Kirchir map, J Jewell (aryans in the new world), Medinet Habu.

(many / 7+3 / 2) other islands match:
The many other islands beyond Atlantis (& of Atlantis kings) in the Account may match the Pacific Islands (& Atlantic islands)? The picture from the coricancha shows 7 dots which might be 7 islands/hills/cities?
“Islands/isles” can mean islands, continents, peninsula, coastlands/shores.
Refs: Jim Allen, Kirchir, Atlantis account, J Jewell (aryans in the new world), bible.

[[12]. Atlantis/Peru/South America being large/powerful/technological enough to extend/project military power from Tiahuanaco/Peru/South America all the way across South America and the Atlantic and western Mediterranean/Europe/North Africa is not unbelievable obstacle or unevidenced; and, there is evidence of other effected nations (“upto Libya & Tyrrhenia”) :
They were a great empire of 10 kings and “many islands”.
The Atlantic was then half the current distance/width.
The Popul Vuh and other sources state that the 1st race examined the 4 compass points.
The great pyramid geodesy etc evidence world seafaring/power/knowledge?
The Piri Reis map is said to show Andes/Peru?
Sea power came before land power. [Geopolitics?]
Consider modern America world power?
Compare the difference of discovery of America makes to world seafaring/knowledge/power since Columbus.
Perhaps Atlantis being “whipped by Athens” (in Mediterranean not Peru) is, in combination with “how projected all that way”, actually evidence it is true too?
Ancients had superior organisation?
Consider that south America [is a watery continent? and] the Amazon crosses it. (Akakor map shows 11 sites across Amazon.)
Ancients had higher technology than evolutionary theorists admit. Many ‘out of place artefacts’.
Atlantis had a big population.
Wessex culture showed a international trade.
See Thor Heyerdahl. Compare (Polynesians, Phoenicians, and) Viking seafaring. Charles Hapgood “ancient sea kings”.
canal isthmus Tehuantepec?
‘archaic maritime’ culture in North America?
prehistoric cultures of western Europe appeared on the west/Atlantic coast?
reed boats might not leave lasting traces?
the sea peoples bearing south american fan palm shows that they can and did project across america/atlantic.
[The bible also has 10 headed beast rising out of Great Sea which could be Atlantic not just Mediterranean?]
‘cati’/”this way” statue in Azores?
The account implies they invaded overtime & overland via europe/africa/asia not/notjust directly oversea from Peru? The Heliolithic culture of HG Wells and others?
Epigraphic publications showed Pelasgians connections with various cultures around the world.
In ancient history atlas (eg McEvedy) there seem possible matching cutlures ‘upto Libya & Italy’ down until 12th dynasty. Possible cultures connected with Atlanteans include: Aurignacian – Solutrean/Clovis – western neolithic – **heliolithic/megalithic** – wessex. [I think i remember seeing that there has been found evidences of boats/seafaring/shipwrecks in “prehistoric” lithic &/or bronze age cultures of western Europe?]
“oceans were highways not barriers”
See the list of other nations accounts/evidences at end.
Refs: Hapgood, Piri Reis map, Berlitz, MacKinder/Haushofer, Plato, G Hawkins, Heyerdahl, Fasold, Fitzgerald-Lee, Spanuth, [Akakor map], McEvedy, HG Wells, SB Cox, J Jewell (Aryans in the new world), B Fell (bronze age america, america bc), P Honore, SC Comtpon (exodus lost).]

[ evidences of New World – Old World contacts:
archaic maritime culture (jewell)
big game hunters – croMagnon hunters (Jewell)
Clovis & Solutrean,
Mackenzie river high arctic culture “paleo-Indian” – CroMagnon (Cox/Norbergen)
Amerinds – (“flat-faced”) Cromagnids/Aurignacians
Otamid – CroMagnon (Jewell)
Kennewick man – archaic Caucasoid.
Iswanid – Mediterranid (Jewell);
eskimo & chancellade (childe)
Olmecs/[Fuegans?] – Africans/Blacks/Negroids;
“luiza/luzia – lucy/african”?
zuni & libyan (fell/childress)
fuente magna protosumerian writing (JimAllen)
American & Basque,
“maya & greek” (Berlitz)?
siouan & saxon language words similar?
aztec & aryan/sanskrit (f&w)
mandan & welsh
ahau & aka/ahaba/agape / ahom
quipu/[qippu] & qoph?
a-tl “water” ~ E-a “water”? or Atlas/Alalus/Adam?;
teotl — dyaus/zeus
Macchu Picchu – mount Mashu (Walker);
tenoch(titlan)/zenock — timbuktoo/tenbuch/enoch/anaku?
myths of Flood, Babel – traditions of Flood, Babel.
4/5 world ages – 4/5 world ages/rivers (MacKenzie).
5 days epact – 5 days epact;
los lunas decalogue stone – 10 commandments?
Navaho picture 3 Yeis – Norse picture Odin, Frey & Thor;
Iyateyet site’s tools are very similar to palaeolithic European/Asian ones.
unusual alloys America & similar unusual alloys Africa (jantsang)?
pyramids/teocalli/mounds/mesae – (pyramid azores) – pyramids/ziggurats/Tower of Babel/tumuli;
**3 pyramids Sipan (& 2/3 pyrs Teotihuacan?) & 3/2 pyramids Giza?**
“Olmec heads & Sphinx face” (hancock)?;
tierra dentro & malta site (atlantisrising magazine)
weaving – weaving (Colchis, Egypt, Phaeacia) (Grandad);
reed boats (Titicaca) – reed boats (Tana/Nile, Egypt, marsh Arabs, Gulf) (Hancock/Heyerdahl);
pottery Peru – very similar pottery Cyprus (Allen).
amphora NW – very similar amphora Medit, Chin (Allen)
precision cut stones – precision cut cyclopean stone work (Berlitz?);
false/corbeled arch (Palenque) – false/corbeled arch (Mycenae)/[gate/trilithon] (Berlitz);
photo taken underwater of Greek temple like building Bimini – Greek temple (lost net forum ref);
mystery hill/medicine wheel/brazilian stonehenge – stonehenge/Callanish/[Atlas/Hyperborea];
feathered headresses Amerinds – feathered/plumbed/rayed headresses SeaPeoples
polynesian/american pectoral – egyptian pectoral head of ra at either cusp
coc(o)a/chocolate/cocaine & tobacco/tobacco beetle/nicotine in 19th/21st dyn burial/mummies [Greek drug nepenthe]?
american cotton in Africa?
african plants in Americas?
assyrian depictions of toakkari seapeoples bearing south american fan palm (FGL).
‘jehu’/’bel’/etc inscriptions in americas
Ancient voyagers to Americas (across Atlantic/Arctic (&/or Pacific)) may include {Votan, Woden-lithi, Queztalcoatl, Jehu’s? Viracocha, Ginti, etc} in American, {Wodenlithi? Poseidon, Hesperus, [Solomon’s (ophir/parvaim)?] Jehu’s? Chinese 2250bc, Meskiaggasher, Odysseus, etc} in Old World.
Some good references for OW-NW contacts evidences include : Pierre Honore, Nigel Davies, Barry Fell, John Jewell, DonaldMacKenzie, Jim Allen, Zecharia Sitchin (lost realms), ThorHeyerdahl, Stephen Compton (Exodus Lost), Berlitz, Hancock, Fitzgerald-Lee, Wegener/Taylor, EHJ Steed, etc. ]

[disputes about problem of New/Old World animals, and diseases:
Animals and plants (& humans) can have “evolved” species-wise alot in 3,400s of years since Atlantis shift.
The account says the Atlanteans were akin to the divine and distant/remote and unmixed with other mortals.]

Other accounts that verify Atlantis was real, the date, its size and where it was, nature of its sinking, of the war between Atlantis & Athens, etc:
{- Inca picture from Coricancha: shows a number of Atlantis details: concentric city (2 x), 2 crops a year, canal, plain & channels & ditch, Poseidon & Clito, mountains, cliff/s, south, by sea/lake, small hill.
– Peru: Manoa/Eldorado? Akakor [~ akapana? apophis?]?
– head of female figure from crespi collection possibly shows Atlantis concentric city?}
– 10 ships Paraiba inscription?
– Piri Reis map is said to show Andes/Peru?
{- Guinean: “A tribe in Guinea which is located on the Atlantic coast of Africa performs a ceremony where they reenact an ancient tradition that white men came down from the sky (flight) [nazca?] and from *an island that no longer exists* in very ancient times, to administer laws and justice. (Interesting that Plato said the Atlantians held control over much of Africa).” – Olokun ~ Poseidon?}
{- Bohuslan: ring/cup marks? – Germanic long hundred? – Germanic co-kings?}
{- UK/Holinshed: giant Albion son of Neptune versus Hercules?
– see our separate list of a dozen or so more UK/Celtic Atlantis connections evidences.}
{- Basque/Atlantide: settling of Catalonia & Spain by refugees from Atlantis.
– Tartessos dates 700(0) years [after Atlantis 900(0)/800(0).}
– carthage coins map 350 mediterranean with americas shown to west across atlantic.
– seculus: cathaginians possessed large rich island on Atlantic called al atlantis, found accidentally when ships lost and carried to island by currents, kept trade route secret. [compare inscriptions brazil/paraiba, “propaganda” etc]
– timagenes: gauls/invaders from island/land in middle of ocean which sank.
– Marcellinus, in the atlantic a large island was swallowed up….
– Proclus, west europe islanders memory of a larger, so- great island which once ruled islands west of europe, which was swallowed up by the external sea / in external sea 7 islands persephone & 3 others of great size (zeus/amon/jupiter, atlantis/poseid/neptune, hades/pluto), inhabitants of [posedon one] remembrance of atlantic island (poseidonis) that dominated all the islands in atlantic sea….
– Pliny….
– plutarch: greeks & phoenicians visited island on west side atlantic, intermarried native women. Islands of blest/elysian fields in atlantic, gentile breezes, enjoy all things without trouble/labour, temperate/moderate climate….
– kirchir map shows Atlantis (as South America?)
– tertullian: island equal size to libya/asia, [ships go out to] look(ed) for in vain.
– aelian/theopompus: meropis larger than europe, asia, libya, etc. “[meropis to hyperborea to troy/greece]”.
– diodorus siculus: a large land / island of considerable size out in deep off libya a number of days sail to west / many days sailing across the atlantic ocean land fruitful, with mountains/mountainous, plains, and navigable rivers, trees every variety, villas, flowers, summer/mild clime, every kind of beast, year abundance fruit, felicitous. war between amazons & atlantioi… amazons from hespera island in west in tritonis marsh near ocean which surrounds earth, mountain atlas, disappeared in earthquake, parts toward ocean torn asunder. Atlas’ part regions on coast of ocean, atlas greatest mountain in land. Atlas perfected science of astrology and doctrine of sphere…. [cf mu, praries.] [atlas temple pattern spheres hyperborea? Andes closest to stars.]
– Plato/solon/sonchis/critias/timaeus: Atlantis larger than asia & libya, etc.
– aristotle: antilla large island in atlantic known by carthaginians….
– hyperborea (“northwest or northeast”) : “happy hyperboreans”. “neither by ships nor by land canst you find the road to the trysting place of the hyper boreans”. “abaris gone all round the world without once eating”. “situated in the north… beyond the north wind… fertile… every crop… temperate climate… [2] crops a year… leto… both a sacred precinct of apollo and a temple… spherical in shape… a city is there which is sacred to this god… have a language … peculiar to them… kings”. “the country is… of blissful and pleasant temperature”. “[meropis to hyperborea to troy/greece]”. [atlas temple pattern spheres hyperborea?]
– Homer: island of schera/phaeacia dwell apart afar in ocean/deep most remote of men…? ogygia/calypso (daughter of atlas) sea-girt wooded isle at navel of sea… keeps the tall pillars… boundary of world… lands & city of cimmerians…. [cp Easter isl/Azores/Mide?]
{- CatalHuyuk/Hittite: the settlement under volcano (& the Ullikummi myth) might connect with Atlantis / Tiahuanaco / Khapia?}
{- “However, we know from the Leningrad Papyrus, (a hieratic scroll dated 1115 BC. conserved at the Hermitage museum) an Egyptian document composed around 2000 BC., dating back to the XII dynasty, that a serpent populace was destroyed by a “star falling from the heavens”. Only one survived on an island “destined to be completely submerged”. …. The myth also connected the serpents to the figures of Mother Goddesses such as Tanit, Innanna, Isis and Eve. They are feminine divinities that carry the baton of a culture to which the snake brings wisdom, medical, scientific and esoteric knowledge.”?
– Egyptian: “Thoth was born in a distant country to the west which was across a body of water. Its main city was by the sea. The land possessed volcanoes and the city had a low mountain or large hill in the center.”
– Egyptian: medinet habu: sea peoples from great darkness, ends of earth/world… isles & mainland of outer circle of water, 9th bow.
– Egyptian: Menes tomb lesser labels: “ra/dag/zal/revolving-sun/spiral/whorl/cup-marks, ash/imi(n)/heaven/mer/muru/wind/storm(god), ussa/the bright field of tas(ia)” [atlantis, or eden?] }
– Philo: island of atlantes in 1 day & night overwhelmed beneath sea in extraordinary earthquake(s) and flood(s).
– Phoenician: Kedarus, Jaminus, Kotilus (Sanchuniathon)? [Gadeirus/Gades.]
– mesopotamian: anaku?
– Persia: 1200 ships Persians. [same number as Atlantis account.]
– indian: 2 continents pushkara/visnukranta/kusa?
– indus: step/foot 1 – boat – step/foot 2. (Hrozny.)
– 10 kings versus sudasa?
– [Angkorwat seems to have a similar city size and canals layout to Atlantis?]
– Chinese: king Peiru-un, continent Maurigosima? [Peru? Amuru/Aramu/Aymara?]
– Mexican: Olman (rubber)? [“San Lorenzo” has concentric city layout.] Tulan? Aztlan?
– Mexican: le plongeon/”codex troano”: [Mu 10 countries, torn asunder]?

List of seemingly possible UK Atlantis connections (that Atlanteans were among the visitors of UK) evidences:
– *Celt’s* “sky fall on heads” = Atlas / world pillar theme;
– quoits/chambers/dolmens ~ Atlas (sky/earth bearer/pillar) motif?
– BrAg/Beakers/Celts (McEvedy/JHawkes) seem to be/arrive about time of Atlantis versus Athens/Hercules. (Compared timelines in date section.)
– Albion son of Neptune [Poseidon/Atlantis] (Holinshed) versus Hercules [Athens].
– celts had towering sefaring ships in caesar’s time (and london was a port with hundreds of ships)
– timagenes: *Gauls*/invaders from island/land in middle of ocean which sank.
– Herodotus said the *Celts* are beyond the pillars of hercules and are the most westerly people of europe (excepting/with the cynesians/cynetes).)
– Atlantic theory &/or central west europe theory (& Spain theory) of origin of Celts fits with Atlanteans.
– Megaliths on west coast UK (ref Hawkes) = Atlantis [south-]west.
– stonehenge damaged on southwest ~ Atlantis “sunk” southwest?
– “the name of an head of land in Britaine called _Promontorium Herculis_” (pillars of Hercules?)
(- Ogham script & runes found in Peterborough North America?)
– earthworks & henges/rings/stone circles
– stonehenge (concentric rings, 5×2, recent claim awhile ago that SH map to Atlantis in Nth Sea)?
{- cup/saucer markings clava cairns Inverness, rock art Carndonagh/Doagh, & snakelike pathways/patterns fairy ring Uig Skye ~ concentric ringed city of Atlantis / ‘Atlantis Cross’?}
– concentric rings inscription bryn-celli-ddu. (phallic stone & vulvic slit ~ poseidon & clito).
– maiden castle (concentric rings)?
– disk/bowl/bell/double bell at Normanton Down (rings/clito, canals)?
– tower of glass middle of sea, sea opened & swalllowed up?
[- salisbury plain (vs London, Jaqueta Hawkes) ~ great plain/altiplano?]
[- baths of Badon ~ Atlantis hot/cold springs?]
[- Alanus ~ atlantis?]
– findrine ~ orichalc
– welsh hat ~ peruvian hat?

list of some of the main Atlantis location theories:
See my post in the ‘list of all Atlantis location theories’ thread/topic on Atlantis Online forum in ‘plato’s atlantis’ subforum.

Atlantis doesn’t and can’t match Thera/Santorini (&/or Crete) as i and others have shown:
– wrong direction: Atlantis was in Atlantic, western, beyond pillars of Hercules, invaded up to Libya/Italy.
– wrong size: Atlantis was a large island (larger than Asia & Libya, great plain, many animals, etc).
– wrong type of disaster: Atlantis sunk not blew up. Thera blew up not sunk.
– wrong date?: Thera’s date is not even certain still. Minoan collapsed after Atlantis sinking/war.
– no city remians found (+ meanwhile there has been found matching remains in Peru).
– “[Crete is barren]”.
– wrong distance.
– “Crete/Thera was just a colony”.
etc.

Atlantis can’t be Dwarka unless Dwarka was in the Atlantic.
[Is Dwarka connected with Uruk/Warka?]

Some of Atlantis/Tiahuanaco references:
Jim Allen (atlantisbolivia.org), our Atlantis Online posts, Posnansky, Sitchin ‘Lost Realms’.
Refs p.s.: Any narrow-minded “academic”-mafia thug that tried to dismiss or discredit all of me and my theses solely because you consider *some* of my references/sources “unreliable/discredited” all i can say is you can’t disprove all my actual evidences (which all agree with each other) (though some may be disputible). Some of us have to use what only resources we have access to, and can only give what references we remember or recorded. (If we don’t give any you dismiss us for not having any, then when we do you dismiss us just because you don’t like them.) And you can’t disprove all the info in the sources, and cant disprove their own sources (eg Sitchin’s ‘Lost Realms’ has info from alot of your own “reliable”-type peer-reviewed journals). If Daniken (say) says the earth goes around the sun do you say its not true just because it is in Daniken or i got it via Daniken or include him as one of the refs for it? Do you deny the existence of the picture from the coricancha just because it is also in Sitchin and is one of my few references for it? Whatever few not-best chinks in my armour or mistakes or “dirt” i have it is not anywhere near enough to even shake the whole thesis strong evidences/proofs. You also have to take into account the reader not just their references. I always try to be as objective/careful as i can with my sources info and with my own ideas. I dont agree with alot of Sitchin’s and/or other sources theories. I always like to consider all spectrum of sources (mainstream & alternative, academic & amateur, old & “update”, christian & non, etc), and I don’t puritanically discard them like others do. (I also have many contacts of all sorts of views: christian, esoteric/”satanist”, nationalist, afrocentrist, arthurian, orthodox/mainstream, etc.) It is seemingly possibly a sad fact that the establishment seem to try find whatever un/true dirt they can and use it to “discredit” a person so they can hide what true/good they have. No one is perfect, I have some bad things but i also have good things, you have bad things as well as good things too.

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